Respect, Mohammad and Sri Lankans.
54 year old, Primary school teacher in Sudan to be wiped 40 lashes and serve 6 month in jail for allowing her seven year old students to name the class teddy bear "Mohammad". I’m all for occasional spanking in the bed room. But 40 lashes on a 54 year old primary teacher sound not right. That sound very curial and unforgiving, or shall I rather say, sound very Islamic.
I don’t know why this British teacher decided to work in an Islamic country so poor, which runs their charity advertisements in Ethiopia. When I travel, I try my best to avoid, if not possible, stay minimum time possible, in any Islamic country. Just because I’m simply fcking scared of inhuman social system still remains in that part of the world, regardless of considerable material development they gained recently.
Here is my travel advice of the day. If you have a choice, don’t go to any Islamic country between longitude E70 to W30 (Pakistan to Africa). (Bangladesh not in that list, which is a very colorful Islamic country). But if you do, don’t complain when they chop off your head for a silly reason.
Mohammad is a religious leader, and I sure do understand we should respect good leaders. But leaders are as good as their followers. Looking at the way how Muslims treat other realigns, like how they treated Bamyan Buddhist statues and so many others, gives me no sensible reason to respect him. I respect Mahatma Gandhi and Mandela, because I have first-class reasons to do so. Muslims can force me and i can pretend, they can threaten to whip my ass or chop my head off, but it does not mean I will respect him any better. Don’t declare how great your teacher is; show it to me in action. Show me how you Muslims treat poor and weak. Show me how you Muslims forgive mistakes. Show me how happy you are. Then I will even consider convert myself to Islam.
I’m pretty sure this primary school teacher didn’t intend to disrespect Mohammad. Mohammad is the most common name in the world. Even liquor drinking, pork eating, movie watching, news paper reading, fully shaven, Internet browsing, fake Muslims carries the name Mohammad too. Then why can’t a teddy bear have the name Mohammad?
I really don’t want to pick a fight with Islam. I understand why they behave the way they do. Forgiveness and compassion are not very significant Islamic morals, but Laws and punishments are. Muslims have all the rights to put those values into effect in their countries. Sudanese have all the rights to whip that primary school teacher. I wish they don’t – but I do understand they do that according to their principles.
Now some Sri Lankan Buddhists may thinks, we are so compassionate and forgiving, we are far better than Muslims in that part of the world. But we are not - We are worst. That’s where my real problem starts.
Islam demand respect, but Buddhism demand nothing. Islam enforces punishment, but Buddhism enforces forgiveness. But we Sri Lankan Buddhists, keep on brining up new bills, not very long ago, one bill for sent anyone misuses Buddha’s image two years in to jail, and then anti-conversion bill, no selling meat in restaurants law, and so many all other sort of laws and sentences to "gain respect and protect" Buddhism. Who are we following? Buddha or Mohammad? Top of that we have monks making laws, collecting Taxes and doing parliamentary duties like Ayatollahs in Iraq.
When Muslims bring up those hideous laws to enforce religion, they do that according to their religious principles. They do what their prophet told them to do so. But when Buddhists do religious policing, we do that against Buddhist principles. That is why I say, we are the worst of kind.
Aren’t Sri Lanka becoming a one of those countries that can possibly jail a woman for religious reasons?
I don’t know why this British teacher decided to work in an Islamic country so poor, which runs their charity advertisements in Ethiopia. When I travel, I try my best to avoid, if not possible, stay minimum time possible, in any Islamic country. Just because I’m simply fcking scared of inhuman social system still remains in that part of the world, regardless of considerable material development they gained recently.
Here is my travel advice of the day. If you have a choice, don’t go to any Islamic country between longitude E70 to W30 (Pakistan to Africa). (Bangladesh not in that list, which is a very colorful Islamic country). But if you do, don’t complain when they chop off your head for a silly reason.
Mohammad is a religious leader, and I sure do understand we should respect good leaders. But leaders are as good as their followers. Looking at the way how Muslims treat other realigns, like how they treated Bamyan Buddhist statues and so many others, gives me no sensible reason to respect him. I respect Mahatma Gandhi and Mandela, because I have first-class reasons to do so. Muslims can force me and i can pretend, they can threaten to whip my ass or chop my head off, but it does not mean I will respect him any better. Don’t declare how great your teacher is; show it to me in action. Show me how you Muslims treat poor and weak. Show me how you Muslims forgive mistakes. Show me how happy you are. Then I will even consider convert myself to Islam.
I’m pretty sure this primary school teacher didn’t intend to disrespect Mohammad. Mohammad is the most common name in the world. Even liquor drinking, pork eating, movie watching, news paper reading, fully shaven, Internet browsing, fake Muslims carries the name Mohammad too. Then why can’t a teddy bear have the name Mohammad?
I really don’t want to pick a fight with Islam. I understand why they behave the way they do. Forgiveness and compassion are not very significant Islamic morals, but Laws and punishments are. Muslims have all the rights to put those values into effect in their countries. Sudanese have all the rights to whip that primary school teacher. I wish they don’t – but I do understand they do that according to their principles.
Now some Sri Lankan Buddhists may thinks, we are so compassionate and forgiving, we are far better than Muslims in that part of the world. But we are not - We are worst. That’s where my real problem starts.
Islam demand respect, but Buddhism demand nothing. Islam enforces punishment, but Buddhism enforces forgiveness. But we Sri Lankan Buddhists, keep on brining up new bills, not very long ago, one bill for sent anyone misuses Buddha’s image two years in to jail, and then anti-conversion bill, no selling meat in restaurants law, and so many all other sort of laws and sentences to "gain respect and protect" Buddhism. Who are we following? Buddha or Mohammad? Top of that we have monks making laws, collecting Taxes and doing parliamentary duties like Ayatollahs in Iraq.
When Muslims bring up those hideous laws to enforce religion, they do that according to their religious principles. They do what their prophet told them to do so. But when Buddhists do religious policing, we do that against Buddhist principles. That is why I say, we are the worst of kind.
Aren’t Sri Lanka becoming a one of those countries that can possibly jail a woman for religious reasons?
posted by Sam at
9:30 PM
19 Comments:
I heard it on the news yesterday and was horrified. It's a teddy bear for fuck's sake. At most, just warn the teacher - inform her, if need be, on the cultural sensitivities of using the name. But to threaten to whip her for something trivial and innocent? It's not like she showed those Danish cartoons to her students. Christ on a cracker, people need to fucking relax.
It may have been the 'religion-based' behavioral patterns of people, like that of the Sudanese in this instance, which led a great man by the name of Karl Marx to describe religion quite appropriately as the 'opium of the masses'
Qraqq, I think the article is talking about the horrible way that Muslims in the Islamic countries of the ME and Africa implement Islamic principles, NOT about Islam itself.
You have to admit that the way women, for example, are treated is barbaric. And this is in the countries that follow Islamic law, NOT in countries like Malaysia & Indonesia where there is secular law.
So don't sound so injured.
The implementation of Islamic principles through the courts is out of the middle ages. Both Christianity & Judaisim haave turned the corner into the modern age and become religions thaat allow secularism in countries where they have a majority. Islam needs to do that as well. Tolerance in interpretation of the Koraan is the first step.
On the other hand I find that Buddhism in SL is turning baack away from being a tolerant modern philosophy/religion.
I'll have you know that, I asked a Christian Priest who I am friendly with during a conversation I had. I mentioned this incident and he understood and in fact, it is the same for Catholics and Christians, if someone names anything by the name f Jesus, they have the right to be killed, and its there black and white.
I think this "Christian Priest" can stop looking and start shooting.
but thanks anyway for proving that bloodthirty bigoted idiots who call themselves muslims aren't exclusive to the middle east and africa.
Anonymous, pls quote the Bible chapter & verse (ask your priest) where it says such a thing, and also pls tell me when (in the last couple of centuries) someone has been executed for it.
You've missed the point, however, which isn't whether which particular religion is better or worse; but how its adherents implement the principles of said religions, not just on themselves bu on those of other faiths.
And before you Muslims start pulling out the persecution complex, you must see that this post originated in relation to someone being punished for breaking a religious taboo. So we are discussing Islam/Muslims, so obviously if you're a Muslim it involves you.
Qraqq.
Thank you for the comment. It is a very good comment.
// What if it was "Jesus Christ"? or "Lord Buddha"?//
There are no “What If” in that case. Just YouTube, “Jesus jokes” or similar. Buddha is a one popular pit-bull Dog name in US. In the TV show “I Love NY” (a show bunch of guys trying to date a one ho”), one dude show up named himself Buddha. So what?
So make it clear first, there is no “What IF”, it is only YOU in that boat now. Others get down from that boat long time back. But I’m scared now Sri Lankan Buddhists want to get in to that boat with you and they try to use the excuse, “what if it was Mohammad”.
//Tell me ONE silly reason.//
“Silliness” is a relative concept. Whipping a teacher, for letting kids name a teddy bear “Mohammad”, sound silly to me. Whipping a girl for getting raped is sound silly to me. Now if does not sound silly to you, it is OK – I do understand.. But if it does (like it does to me), do not go in to places that could possibly happen.
//I'd like to tell you that Islam prohibits any ill treatment to any religion//
let me say first, I read the Quran few times, but I didn’t study it profoundly. So I can be absolutely wrong here.
As far as I understood the holly book, it says “treat anyone worships statues, like slaves”. Disbelievers will be punished by lightening, fire, boiling fluid poured down on their heads, bellies and skin, till melted, then hooked them in to iron rods, and so on and on…
I don’t want to give impression Quran only teaches graphically violent things. It sure does have very valuable teachings too. But, hmm.. no.. Islam does not take other religions very kindly (just like most of other religions used to be too in that manner).
// Give me one instance where Muslims have tried forcibly to convert you or anybody for that matter, into Islam//
I sure didn’t mean any Muslim try to convert me to Islam by any violent mean or any other mean (that is one good things I like about Muslims – they never knock the door, spreading the good word). But sure does Muslims like to take the gangster approach regularly when it come to “respect business”, burning down building, killing people and whipping people.
Remember back then, church want to burn Galileo for him writing a book. Church grew up – they don’t do that anymore. But Muslims still do. By doing so, Muslims stop me having look at other options.
// But living in a Muslim country, she should have known better//
Couldn’t agree with you any better.
// So if they are fake and don't follow the religion, that's their own fault and they will suffer for that.//
My point is, if you don’t whip their parents for naming them Mohammad – then why whip for naming a teddy bear. Who disrespect more?
// It is profoundly obvious that you speak with hatred from all that you see of Iraq and bin Laden and whatnot.//
First of all, I don’t hate Muslims. I absolutely do not trust Rupert Murdoch either.
Again, I’m not an expert. But so far I understand, Islam could not exist without punishment. Punishment for the crime is primary principle of Islam. I’m not saying it is good or bad here. Every religion has deferent approach to the world.
// you do not have to kneel on your knees//
This is not a comparison between two religions. You can never compare two religions and justify one using others stupidity.
FYI : Kneeing down front of statues have absolutely nothing to do with Buddhism. There is not even concept of “worship” in Buddhism. Respecting monks.. Well.. it is good to respect any one if they Deserve it, even if he is a monk or not. Yeh. Ture. Sri Lankans respect monks just because they wear a robe, even when some behave horrible. That is absolutely wrong. i just had to said it because you call me a Liar.
// then why, I ask you' are there prisons and jails all across the country.//
Aha! Good question. That is the only problem I have with Islam. This is a larger topic we can discuss separately.
Islam still goes beyond the point of a religion; it still stays as a social contract. It has it own way of ruling, laws and punishments, fashion, so on and on. I do understand, back then we didn’t had very strong political systems, policing, education system or healthcare system and we had to use religion as a Swiss Army knife that do all that. But now we have better political systems, healthcare systems, education systems, separated from religion. Most of the religions also separate themselves from those extra businesses, only focus on spiritual salvation as their main business. But power base of Islam still haven’t change much, at least not yet.
I think this answers L’s question also. Bangladesh, Malaysia sure is Islamic countries. But they try to separate deferent aspect of social order, in to individual entities, like individual penal code that evaluate it is own or an individual education system. That way Islam as a religion can shine better in it is main business – spiritual business.
Also L, Ireland is not a religious issue in the first place. That is a bloody conflict start because of organic farming. Latter political system used religious identity (not the religion) for maintain the conflict. In India, in Kosovo, those are cultural identity issues too.
// Where were the billions of Christians when this happened?//
They act on that alright. Hopefully Kosovo can be independent now after this election.
Anyway we are not talking about political Wars. We are talking about religious principles and religious laws.
Back to qraqq , Judiciary in Sri Lanka has nothing to do with Buddhism. And it should not be. Like I said before, my real problem is, Buddhism in Sri Lanka tries to attach in to those systems very keenly. I’m very worried about that. Buddha said his monks; let the king rule his country and you rule yourself. Jesus said “Give then unto Cesar, that which belong unto Cesar: And to God, that which belong to God”.
// Forgiveness can only go so far//
This is not a Buddhist lesson. But Buddhist sure did forgive those people blow up those statues. Again, my problem is not Islam want to punish people for religious reason, my problem is Sri Lankan Buddhists want to do the same now.
// All in all it is plainly clear that you have posted baseless, useless rubbish without thinking the issue through and looking at it from a very narrow angle//
Yes. I look at it my own angles. I have my right to look at the world in deferent angles freely, analyze it and choose what best fits me – that is the right most religions try to stop.
You can vote this for garbage, which is fine. You have no other choice like i do.
Sam I have to say that is one of the most eloquent, witty and comprehensive comment responses I have ever read...priceless!
Not sure if people are aware of judicial caning in Singapore, first introduced by the British to Singapore:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore
Click above link for a list that includes:
# Outrage of modesty
# Sodomy or gross indecency between males
Not sure if you are referring to the same case I read about recently about a woman in Saudi arabia who was sentenced to 90 lashes for gang rape. She was not sentenced for being raped, but because those defending the rapists have made allegations that she was found in a state of undress in a car with a man who was not her husband. It appears, the law has been twisted around to benefit the perpetrators of the crime to discredit the rape victim. Sadly, not something that is exclusive to the Islamic world. The rape was also filmed by a man on his mobile phone, which sounds similar to a recent case that occurred in Sri Lanka.
Deference between caning in Singapore and whipping according to religion is, when Singaporean decide when they don’t want to cane any one any more, they can wake up early in the morning, go to election poles and change the system. Then watch the TV over night and see how it is been changed. They don’t have to wait till God to come down with fire and lighting and change their social order.
Issue is not caning or whipping as a method of punishment (electric chair is far more inhumane than a whip), it is why they execute that punishment and how they decide to do it. I’m pretty sure Singaporeans never whip any one for using makeup. It is all about where those rules of engagement coming form. Is that coming from 1000s of year old document you never suppose to change or question, and if you ever question you find you self having a bounty on your head, or is that coming from each generation according to their needs.
N, very unusual compliment :) thanks!
I wholeheartedly second N's comment on Sam's excellent response.
Without trying to generalise, I must say that there are two things that clearly need to change in the Islamic world:
1 Muslims need to focus on what the reaal issues are, and not confuse religion with other issues. It is this inability that Qraqq manifests when he claims that Northern Ireland, Iraq, Israel/Palestine, and Boznia are religious issues, but doesn't recognize that whipping a schoolteacher or a rape victim because they broke a religious taboo patently is. A fairly easy way to make the distinction is to start by realising that an attack on a Christian or Muslim by someone of another religion does not make it a religion-motivated attack. Which is why the killing of the six millon Jews by the Germans is not an attack on Judaism by Roman Catholicism. Conversely, when an attack (or punishment) is carried out expressly for religious reasons (the schoolteacher and rape victim), it IS a religious issue.
2 Muslims need to separate religion and state. Someone asked why we don't point out Malaysia & Indonesia as Muslim countries where such atrocities don't happen. It is exactly because those countries are governed by secular laws that it doesn't.
nice to c u on blog sam
Sam, You are a brain washed man with by some biased medias. I advise you to have some basic knowledge in whatsever you are going to write in future.
In arabic, word islam means peacefull itself. The holy qr'aan it is the Primary sourse of Islam, explains about values of peace and humanity for all man kind in several verses.and also it says about the punishment and laws. these punisment and laws are to stabilize and stennghten the peace and human right of community but not for braking human right.
Finally I advise You to study Islam frm his basics not from medias.
Anon,
//these punisment and laws are to stabilize and stennghten the peace and human right of community but not for braking human right.//
Then why there is no peace in Islamic world?
Sam, sorry for this late comment.
"Why is there no peace in the Islamic world".
My opinion, though like you I am not an expert, is that it is primarily due to the fact that the centre of Islam and a large number of countries are located in the Middle east and well the middle east has a rare and precious commodity...oil. Therefore, it is in the interests of countries pursuing world dominance such as the U.S and preceding that Britain, that these countries do not achieve democracy in a real sense. Palestine and Lebanon are in shambles, though they are probably the only nations in recent times to achieve democracy in the arab world and definitely interference from the US has played a significant role in creating the current mess. Every single country in the middle east except the two with extreme dictatorships expressing extreme anti-western views, such as Syria and Iran, have US Bases on their soil. A number of them still have British bases as a legacy from the british colonial past. The British didn't bother with former colonies such as Sri Lanka but they definitely recognised the need to retain a presence in some form in the middle east.
I do still think it is unfair that people have mentioned Malaysia etc. as a liberal country, and still insist that no Islamic state can be liberal.
Think it is important to first look at facts before making emotional judgements.
This article written in 1980 but still relevant today, by a non-muslim arab the late Edward Said (he was professor of English and comparative literature at the University of Columbia) provides an interesting perspective.
Islam Through Western Eyes
(http://www.thenation.com/doc/19800426/19800426said)
One criticism I have heard by muslims is the lack of recognition that Islam and Muslims like the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists etc and their religions cannot be painted simplistically as one broad stripe. We are actually resorting to being what we accuse "muslims" of being; We are being fundamentalist" in our portrayal of them. By doing so we come dangerously close to exhibiting racial or religious prejudice.
By the way reading around the news about the "Teddy bear" incident. There appears to be a political component to it. I think for instance there were allegations that the Sudanese government was using the woman as a bargaining chip with Britain to reduce the heat they were under regarding Darfur. Sorry didn't have time to read in detail. Also this helps the government distract the local population from more pressing matters.
Off topic...
Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with you, I admit I find your writing quite quirky and funny and enjoy reading what you have to say.
Sorry, correction to link to article:
Islam through Western Eyes
Sorry for delaying in reply.
I do agree, Middle East have it is own issues. But there is no place in the world that does not have problems. If Islam brings peace, it should create peace right now and right here, when it is needed, not when all the problems cleared away. So I have to believe, even if I like or not, Islam actually not capable of creating peace as they advertise.
Malaysia does find better balance between spiritually and rest of other business. They let other religions exists. They let girls go to school. Even let birth control. Actually that is a wonderful country to visit and I encourage anyone who happened to read this post visit Malaysia if they have a chance. But I seriously doubt, if creators of Islam happened to come back today, will they consider Malaysia as an ideal Islamic nation.
I do not deny religious people like to be prejudice. They have to; if not they to go hell. But let’s take Christian countries like America, or UK, or Hindu countries like India, or pretend to be Buddhist countries like Sri Lanka, they all let Muslim people actively engage in their religion. Not only that, sometimes they even offer separate Islamic friendly laws for Islamic people. Just like you said even British parliament has Muslim MPs. How nice it is! But can one do same in Islamic countries in return? And top of that some Muslims work toward eliminating British parliament all together, just like how Pope tried to do back in the days.
Sudanese government defiantly has political intentions. But they use that opportunity, because Islam community provides it that way. Recently one dude had a statue Jesus made with cow dung in his art exhibition. Well, people didn’t take it very well, not because of any Religious reason, but it happened to be upper class art collector didn’t take the odor very well. My point is, all other religions do not provide that sort of opportunities any more. (They did back in the days.).
Now if you think people do not like Islam, because it happened to be just Islam (like all the Muslims complains), it is not true. Every characteristic I explain above, existed in all other religions back in the days and people didn’t like them either. It is the characteristics other people do not like. After so many hammering from deferent people, those religions shape in to what it is today. Now they try to do the same to Islam too. That is not easy and it is not pretty. There are more outrageous religions out there like FLDS. But people do not complain about them that much because they do not openly work toward jihad or any other sort of world dominations, so people do not threaten by it.
We all engage in continues struggle to gain more freedom and maintain the freedom we already have. When we stop that struggle, one ideology or other will take over us. It can come in the face of religion, politics or something else. We clear most of the west from Christianity, now even none Christians can have a seat in the parliaments. When that happen in Middle East too, world will be far more better place.
Hey! Thank you very much for kind compliments :)
Hey... I don't know how many Muslims you know, or have lived with. In India, they are the largest minority.
SO I will tell you what I feel about this post.
Firstly, I think it is very brave. I think so because in a world where political correctness comes above all else, you have chosen to speak your mind.
Secondly, about your point on whether or not Islam and Muslims are kind to their poor, let me tell you that every Muslim must pay a certain percentage of his or her income to help maintain the less fortunate in the community. It is a tenet I greatly admire.
Thirdly, about the teacher. She asked her students to name the teddy bear. The students, Muslims all, chose the name they liked best. They chose Mohammad. The teacher did not name the toy.
Fourthly, I agree 100% that a religion, or the followers of that religion, do not deserve much respect if they abuse other religions. We have seen Muslims do this all the time, but also other religions. If Islam has forced conversions, so does Christianity. If Islam ill treats it's, and other religions' women, so does Hinduism.
Fifthly, I think these 'peaceful' muslims java junkie mentioned need to come out into the open world and show the world that they are indeed 'peaceful'. Saying that does not prove it to be so. The world today suffers from 'Islamophobia' because terrorists go around the world blowing people up, and then telling everybody it's for Islam. That's obviously not very good publicity, and you cannot really expect people to bring you bouquets. If these peace loving muslims do not want a joke to be made out of their religion, they must take a global stand against people like Bin Laden, and they must do it publicly. But then their lives may also become as mortal as the rest of us. Perhaps even more so than ours. Who knows?
Their is an incident my Mother once told me about. She went to a Dargah with a Muslim couple. She was dressed according to the laws of the Islam, and there was no outward way of knowing her religion. She told me that they could not complete their visit because they felt such open hostility. She could not figure out why, but it was there, and it was against her. Later, she asked the friends she had gone there with, and they said that they had come away due to the same uncomfortable feeling.
I think that if a person of another religion went to a church or a temple, this would probably not happen. I think they should be more open about it, but it's not my religion, so it's not my business.
Basically, I don't think you should assume that every Muslim person is bad. I strongly disagree with that. I must tell you I know many decent Muslims, who are hard working, honest, and love their country more than their religion.
Good looking too... Zaheer Khan, for example ;)
BTW, did you know that in Islam, while whipping somebody, one has to carry a copy of the Holy Quran under the armpit? This is so that the whipping is not done very hard. I'm not defending this barbaric practice, but I thought you might want to know.
I only just read your last comment Sam...sorry! :-)
Actually came back to this post today because I read another rant about Muslims and it reminded me about this post.
Just with regard to
"I do agree, Middle East have it is own issues. But there is no place in the world that does not have problems."
Sri Lanka and India were colonised due to spices. Spices are not that important any more. Now the Middle East has become the focus for colonisation, due to the oil trade. It is more densely packed with ongoing wars and conflicts than most other parts of the world. The arms trade is centred around the middle east. So it has more than it's fair share of problems. It is not as simple as asking for peace now. The powers with the greatest amount of access to arms etc. will knock back any dissent because they want to have control on the oil supply at any cost. Even if it means supporting corrupt and dictatorial despots. Saddam was one of them in the past but then became dispensable to the Americans. The Saudi royal family are another example of pro-US despots. All you need to do to be a leader in the middle-east is to support America, regardless of your political ideology. To be independent of America you seem to need to take an extremist stance like Syria or Iran. Recently Fatah took over control from the democratically elected Hamas using arms supplied by the US. Basically governments are erected and toppled down according to the whim and fancies of the US and its allies. It took India 400 years to get rid of the British. Don't know if we can blame Hindus for the delay!
Regarding Christians having a seat in parliament. Actually parliament in Lebanon is rotated between Christians, muslims etc. The minister of defence in Saddam's former government was a Christian. There are Christians who hold leadership positions in the PLO and are in the Palestinian parliament (or whatever has been allowed to survive by the Americans and the Israelis!).
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